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Last Updated: February 9, 2010 10:12 PM




Taiwanese Black Metal Band CHTHONIC Put Spin On The Country's Past - Sep. 15, 2003
The controversial Taiwanese black metal band CHTHONIC have been criticized for mixing politics and music, and have even been prevented from performing in China after being labeled as "pro-independence musicians."

They extolled the virtues of Na Tao Ji, a tragic heroine of Taiwanese folklore, by singing her story in front of the Presidential Office on Sept. 6 when 150,000 people gathered at a rally to promote changing the country's name from the Republic of China to Taiwan.

After being chosen as the best band at the 14th Golden Melody Awards, the Mandarin-speaking world's biggest music award, on Aug. 8, they pronounced: "Thank you, my mother country, Taiwan."

Speaking to Taipei Times reporter Fiona Lu tried after a performance at a pro-Taiwan rally, lead singer Freddy Lin offered his take on the ideological criticism against CHTHONIC.

"We formed CHTHONIC when we were ready to accept and respond to disagreement from other people in music circles against our work," Lin said. "But it is inappropriate to label CHTHONIC as pro-independence, since we were only telling our audience stories of ancient Taiwanese culture and customs. We were already being criticized in the first year after CHTHONIC's formation.

"The earlier critics denounced our music as nothing but dreary cries and screams. Some others detested CHTHONIC and asked why we could sing softly and gently, but about such wretched subjects and with such desperation.

"The objections later became political when we made it clear that we are safeguarding our mother culture and the history of Taiwan, and that we believe it is unique from China.

"The reproaches reached a climax when we held the Say No to China's Annexation concert in 2000.

"I have to say that when these critics say things like 'Keep politics out of music', they are being immature. Those critics who are performers themselves could protest against CHTHONIC by hosting a concert on the theme of 'Say No to the Objection of China's Annexation.'

"As for the non-musicians, they blurred the meaning of separating politics from music when they criticized CHTHONIC in this way.

"The best way to remove political influence from the creation of music is to prevent politicians from manipulating the music industry, not prohibiting musicians singing about ideological issues.

"We learned that the former ruling KMT [Chinese Nationalist Party] shifted its focus on business investment from industries like banking to entertainment productions. This raised fears of political manipulation in the KMT-owned media.

"CHTHONIC also experienced a typical political intervention during an engagement with the Ministry of Culture of the Chinese government.

"A huge number of CHTHONIC fans in China had tried several times to invite us there for a concert. The request was eventually turned down by the Chinese culture ministry, who called us 'pro-independence musicians.'

"The Chinese culture ministry proclaimed that CHTHONIC was guilty of a pro-independence stance not by listening to our music, but based on our performing at pro-independence gala.

"But it is interesting to find that, because of this dispute, different perceptions arose among rock n' roll fans in different parts of China. We learned that fans in Beijing shut down any online discussion relating to CHTHONIC since we are 'renegades'." Read more.
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COMMENT |
posted by : Sinistrum
9/15/2003 4:38:41 AM

Can't wait to hear some their tracks, Nothing like a bit of controversy to kick off your career

COMMENT |
posted by : JudasPissed
9/15/2003 5:03:08 AM

Is this news?

COMMENT |
posted by : black lotus church
9/15/2003 6:26:05 AM

I think it is fairly interesting that something as undigestible to the average mainstream public as a black metal band could be considered a "voice for democracy" speaking for the masses in their country. Kooky.

we have an interview with these guys @ www.gnosiszine.com, for those that are interested...

COMMENT | I'm a little leary of bands....
posted by : the Dude
9/15/2003 9:43:21 AM

.... with unpronouncable names.

COMMENT | names, politics, etc.
posted by : mabewa
9/15/2003 11:01:54 AM

Yeah, that's kind of funny. Ethnic Chinese people often take extra English names for use with non-Chinese, just because Chinese words are so unpronouncable for people who don't speak Chinese. But, in this case, the Chinese name (Shanling) is quite pronouncable, while the "English" (it's actually Greek or something) name is weird as hell.

As for a black metal band being a voice for democracy... Taiwan was colonized by the Japanese for 50 years, then they were occupied by the Chinese Nationalists for another 40 years. After all that, when democracy came, everyone became VERY openminded. Even the president of the country goes to punk and metal shows.

As for the political issue, I don't have time for any history lessons here, but suffice to say that if Taiwan is an inalienable part of China, then you could say the same thing about Korea and Vietnam. It's a long, sad story, but if history had been a bit different, Taiwan might be as independent now as S. Korea is. It is, actually, a de-facto country, like it or not.

I used to write for the Taipei Times. Of course, most of the papers there are in Chinese, but that is a kick-ass English-language daily. Great with both politics and music.

COMMENT | mabewa
posted by : the Dude
9/15/2003 11:46:18 AM

If I understood you right, the Chinese alternative is "Shanling"?

If that's the case, then that name is no good either, because it will just make people think of that obnoxious actor, Gary Shandling, and that's never a good thing, hahaha!

COMMENT | Who?
posted by : Luca Brazi
9/15/2003 12:30:35 PM

What? Taiwanese black metal
that just looks funny

COMMENT | unpronouncable names..is that really such a big deal?
posted by : azagothoth78
9/15/2003 1:16:33 PM

I mean "Borknagar", thats a strange name. Even Dimmu Borgir is pronounced wrong by many people, they say it so slow like "dimooo boregear". When norwegians tend to speak their native tounge faster than english. Also Dimmu Borgir means "black mass".

COMMENT |
posted by : mabewa
9/15/2003 1:20:43 PM

Well, me knowing so little about movies, I didn't pick up on that one. It is pretty similar... just that "D" there.

I think that Taiwanese black metal works just fine. They don't sing about Satan or the usual Western black metal subjects. They sing about traditional Chinese and Taiwanese ghosts, demons, and folk stories. Great material.

Their first two albums both had versions translated into English--I've never heard them, and suspect that the translations and singing is not good. (could be wrong there, I guess). Anyway, if you can find them, I would recommend the Chinese/Taiwanese versions of their albums--sure, you won't be able to understand them, but how much do you understand of Western black metal lyrics? Not much, I would guess.

Really, I think that bands should sing in their native languages, and they should have good translations of the lyric sheets. I know that in Japan, Chthonic/Shanling's albums are sold in the Chinese/Taiwanese versions, but with the lyric sheets including Japanese translations. That could be done in English as well.

COMMENT | fucking coooool.......
posted by : 13kronors
9/15/2003 1:22:06 PM

chthonic's really fucking cool. i've read some news about chthonic will release their new english album soon. i can't wait to hear that kick ass oriental metal master again.

COMMENT | mabewa-good idea but it doesnt work
posted by : azagothoth78
9/15/2003 1:31:01 PM

bands have tried to stay to there native tounge but, they tend to stay whithin the confines of who can understand and interpret the lyrics.

Again Ill use Dummu as an example. They didnt make it to well until they started singing in English. This is off of there official biography, even though their last album has two songs in norwegian, the band has steered toward what the majority understands so they can tour in england and the states with relative ease.

I like your point about roots and call me crazy but if I cannot understand the vocals of a band I will grab the cd cover and study the lyrics until it sounds like spoken english.
I like to know the lyrics of what I am listening to.

COMMENT | Dummu=Dimmu
posted by : azagothoth78
9/15/2003 1:40:26 PM

Monday Typos

COMMENT | Dimmu Borgir and Chthonic
posted by : SilenoZ
9/15/2003 2:04:18 PM

Anyone tried to download mp3s from Chthonics homepage www.chthonic.org? damn it didn't work.. I want to listen to some of their songs.


And I like to correct azagothoth. The name "Dimmu Borgir" is islandic, and means dark castle.

COMMENT | Silenoz...
posted by : Dani
9/15/2003 2:44:34 PM

Hmm...could that really be the man himself from Dimmu Borgir? And, if it really is you, perhaps you can tell us the correct pronounciation of "Dimmu Borgir" for us English-speaking folk.

COMMENT | Dimmu = Lameu
posted by : The Real Kutulu
9/15/2003 3:05:29 PM

Nuff said. Black metal sucks.

COMMENT | azagothoth
posted by : the Dude
9/15/2003 3:31:13 PM

I'm actually joking around, man. I have so many bizarrely named bands in my collection, it's pitiful, heheh. I love Borknagar and Dimmu and would probably dig these Taiwanese guys as well.

Here's one for you: Mors Principium Est. And yes, they kick much ass!

COMMENT | Oh yeah...
posted by : the Dude
9/15/2003 4:04:38 PM

Here's another one that I've been into lately: Omnium Gatherum. They are AWESOME!

COMMENT | the Dude
posted by : azagothoth78
9/15/2003 4:25:21 PM

Mors Principium Est and Omnium Gatherum, what genre of music are they?
They sound interesting, I am gonna see if I can find some websites on these bands.

Also, did you get the new Dimmu yet?
Great Album

SilenoZ, thanks for the proper translation, I dont remember were I heard that Dimmu Borgir meant "black mass".

COMMENT | Actually
posted by : The Real Kutulu
9/15/2003 5:08:04 PM

The direct translation of Dimmu Borgir is "sucks ass" not "black mass"

COMMENT | The Real Kutulu
posted by : azagothoth78
9/15/2003 5:47:35 PM

Hey flamer, you spelled Kutulu wrong, and secondly I didnt ask you for your opinion.

COMMENT | correct dimmu translation
posted by : black lotus church
9/15/2003 6:51:23 PM

"And I like to correct azagothoth. The name "Dimmu Borgir" is islandic, and means dark castle."

You beat me to it...:=)

COMMENT | Chthonic isn't that hard to say...
posted by : black lotus church
9/15/2003 6:56:07 PM

Ka-thonic.... What's so difficult about that? it's similar to spelling and pronounciation of "cthulu" = "KA-Tu-Lu"...

what relevance this has on anything? I have no idea...

COMMENT | azagothoth
posted by : the Dude
9/15/2003 7:16:08 PM

Swedish melodic death, in answer to your question. Omnium Gatherum is the better of the two in my opinion. They are real progressive, kind of like COB, but not as blatantly neoclassical. Very very cool stuff.

I have the new Dimmu, but haven't had a chance to listen to it yet. It's one of those albums that I don't want to hear until I have an opportunity to listen to the whole thing through with no interruptions.

COMMENT | language = universal language
posted by : mabewa
9/15/2003 7:44:48 PM

...but, actually, most bands in Asia and Latin America (which together, represent much of the world's population) sing in their native languages.

Of course, it helps when your native language is Mandarin Chinese or Spanish. Spanish now has slightly more native speakers than English does (due to the much higher birthrate among Spanish-speaking people, it's true, so don't jump on me for not being PC) and Mandarin Chinese has nearly 900 million native speakers, WAY more than any other language. Also, both languages are widely studied, not so much as English, but, hey, Spanish-language music is HUGE in Asia, where there are almost no native Spanish speakers.

I do understand why Scandanavian bands usually sing in English, because those languages are so small. Still, hey, that weird-ass Icelandic band Sigur Ros is becoming popular all over the world (huge in Japan, for example) and who the hell understands Icelandic ANYWHERE?)

The idea that you have to sing in English to become popular seems to mostly just apply to metal--punk and noise bands usually just sing in their own languages. I think metal fans will gradually get more openminded, too. I mean, a language like Taiwanese, I can't understand most of it either (I speak Mandarin, but very little Taiwanese) but it sounds COOL AS FUCK. It's got to be the best sounding language for punk rock in the world, and it sounds pretty good for metal, too.

COMMENT | UHHH!!!!!
posted by : Gutteral Hell
9/16/2003 2:49:48 AM

Yeah!!

COMMENT | mabewa
posted by : azagothoth78
9/16/2003 9:20:00 AM

I wasnt jumping on ya.
I was just noticing how some of the bands from over seas from pop to metal have learned or started to sing in english. I dont doubt you about the spanish population that is definately true.

Futhermore I havent heard many speak in Tawinese but I am interested in how they sound.


The Dude: Good idea about taking the time to listen to the whole album as it is a bit different than PEM, call me insane but I hear alot of thrash in this new album.



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